So I've decided to give laser pointer holography a try. I saw a special on Slavich PFG-04 Dichromated Gelaten Emulsion plates that had a manufacture date of 06-2007 on them. Since this is my first go, I figured these would be suitable to work with while I got the hang of it. Are these too old to get any image recorded on?
Here is the equipment I have so far:
30x PFG-04 Plates
1x Bottle each Kodak Rapid Fixer A+B
2x Bottles Isopropyl Alcohol 70%
1x large plastic tray filled with kitty litter as my "isolation table"
1x 75mW Wicked Laser Executive Series 532nm
1x 10mW 405nm cheap ebay blue pointer
1x 5mW Wicked Laser Core 532nm
1x 5mW generic red pointer
Do I have a chance at all of making holograms with the materials listed above?
Holography Noob....Questions
-
rzeheb
Holography Noob....Questions
Hmmm, wow. Onyx, if you are truly a nubie, that is, if this is your first attempt at making a hologram of any sort (laser pointer or otherwise), then I would give strong consideration to simplifying your efforts to maximize your chances of success. It is possible to make holograms with a green pointer (I have done it). But my recommendation would be to use silver halide medium to start with (such as VRP-M plates) and an appropriately matched developing kit (such as JD-2 which you can purchase from Integraf). As it is, you will have your hands full making sure your "table" is adequately stable, exposure times, angles, polarizations are correct. Development and bleaching times are correct. I wouldn't start out trying split-beam set-ups with a green pointer because the coherence distances are pretty short and you would have to match path lengths pretty closely. I have not worked with DCG (yet) but from reading this forum it seems as though the learning curve is a bit steep. You could end up frustrating yourself right out of this hobby if you start out with so many variables..... too hard to trouble shoot when it doesn't work.
-
JohnFP
Holography Noob....Questions
Since you have the plates already, lets see what we can do to get you a hologram.
Being a DCG holographer, I have never tried the Slavich plates. They are old but I hear they are still ok, even aged. Anyone care to ellaborate on that from experience.
DCG will give the brightest results from Single Beam Reflections (SBR).
Not sure I agree that the learning curve is steeper for DCG if you are using industrial mass produced manufactured emulsion. I think the biggest hurdle with DCG is the home emulsion fabrication and coating process. I think that throws the most variables in.
As far as processing DCG, it has been shown here that 100% Isopropyl Alcohol is not necessarily needed, 91% can be used as a final bath, but I am not sure you can get enough water out using 70% as your final bath. 91% can be bought over the counter at drug stores, k-marts and the such in USA.
Also, power wise, I found DCG to be 10x more sensitive to the blue then the green so you are sitting at 75mw for green and 10mw for the blue. I believe both will require 2 -4 minute exposures. Surely for an amature that would need to be a SBR hologram with the plate lying right on the object. Find an object that has 3 solid point or start off with coins as most do insuring the coins are on a solid surface (a brick or concrete paver) which can be in your sandbox.
What scrares me the most if know if your lasers can make holograms at all. If you can't get specs on them, then I would start off by shooting a one inch (2.54cm) diamter spot which should get your exposure down to about 1/2 minute or so. Then you can go to a larger plate. Are the 2.5 x 2.5 or 4 x 5? If 4 x 5 cut them into quarters.
You will also need a hair dryer for the final drying stage and you may want a razor blade and 2 part epoxy (5 min) to seal your hologram if you get one and want to keep it.
Hey, if you don't mind, where did you get this deal on those plates? Are there anymore. I always wanted to try Slavich DCG.
Being a DCG holographer, I have never tried the Slavich plates. They are old but I hear they are still ok, even aged. Anyone care to ellaborate on that from experience.
DCG will give the brightest results from Single Beam Reflections (SBR).
Not sure I agree that the learning curve is steeper for DCG if you are using industrial mass produced manufactured emulsion. I think the biggest hurdle with DCG is the home emulsion fabrication and coating process. I think that throws the most variables in.
As far as processing DCG, it has been shown here that 100% Isopropyl Alcohol is not necessarily needed, 91% can be used as a final bath, but I am not sure you can get enough water out using 70% as your final bath. 91% can be bought over the counter at drug stores, k-marts and the such in USA.
Also, power wise, I found DCG to be 10x more sensitive to the blue then the green so you are sitting at 75mw for green and 10mw for the blue. I believe both will require 2 -4 minute exposures. Surely for an amature that would need to be a SBR hologram with the plate lying right on the object. Find an object that has 3 solid point or start off with coins as most do insuring the coins are on a solid surface (a brick or concrete paver) which can be in your sandbox.
What scrares me the most if know if your lasers can make holograms at all. If you can't get specs on them, then I would start off by shooting a one inch (2.54cm) diamter spot which should get your exposure down to about 1/2 minute or so. Then you can go to a larger plate. Are the 2.5 x 2.5 or 4 x 5? If 4 x 5 cut them into quarters.
You will also need a hair dryer for the final drying stage and you may want a razor blade and 2 part epoxy (5 min) to seal your hologram if you get one and want to keep it.
Hey, if you don't mind, where did you get this deal on those plates? Are there anymore. I always wanted to try Slavich DCG.
-
onyx86
Holography Noob....Questions
Thanks for the tips. I chose the DCG plates because the spec said Blue-Green sensitive, and the most powerful laser i have is a 75mW green. Here are the specs on it:
Size: 13x144mm
Wavelength: 532nm
Laser Body: Black Polished Brass
Transverse Mode: TEM00
Output Power: 15mW - 125mW (mines 75mW)
Beam Divergence: 0.8mRad - 1.0mRad
Beam Diameter: 1.6mm
Power Consumption: 600mA
Power supply: 2 X AAA 1.5V
Battery Lifetime: 90 min
Switch: Momentary On / Off Button
Duty Cycle: 100 seconds on / 10 seconds off
Expected lifetime: >5,000 hours
Does the mW power matter in holography? I see that most of the pros are using lab lasers with lower mW ratings than 75.
I'm willing to make an isolation table using the cinder blocks and inner tubes etc. I just saw the tutorial about laser pointer / shoe box holography and figured this would be a place to start. I have plenty of mirrors and optics if I were to try a split beam, but it sounds like everyone suggests to start with a SBR hologram.
Do DCG plates need the Kodak Rapid fixer? I read a tutorial online about DCG holograms that suggested the fixer, which is why I have it.
JohnFP: You can find the specials I mentioned here: http://www.holokits.com/holography_supp ... ecials.htm
Size: 13x144mm
Wavelength: 532nm
Laser Body: Black Polished Brass
Transverse Mode: TEM00
Output Power: 15mW - 125mW (mines 75mW)
Beam Divergence: 0.8mRad - 1.0mRad
Beam Diameter: 1.6mm
Power Consumption: 600mA
Power supply: 2 X AAA 1.5V
Battery Lifetime: 90 min
Switch: Momentary On / Off Button
Duty Cycle: 100 seconds on / 10 seconds off
Expected lifetime: >5,000 hours
Does the mW power matter in holography? I see that most of the pros are using lab lasers with lower mW ratings than 75.
I'm willing to make an isolation table using the cinder blocks and inner tubes etc. I just saw the tutorial about laser pointer / shoe box holography and figured this would be a place to start. I have plenty of mirrors and optics if I were to try a split beam, but it sounds like everyone suggests to start with a SBR hologram.
Do DCG plates need the Kodak Rapid fixer? I read a tutorial online about DCG holograms that suggested the fixer, which is why I have it.
JohnFP: You can find the specials I mentioned here: http://www.holokits.com/holography_supp ... ecials.htm
-
rzeheb
Holography Noob....Questions
I have to apologize. I was rushed late last night when I posted my reply... and it shows! I much prefer John's positive contructive approach. It's the sort of help I would have wanted under the same circumstances. Also, I was thinking of DIY DCG plates when I spoke of a steep learning curve. You can do this!
-
JohnFP
Holography Noob....Questions
Humm, I read on Slavich web site, they state the DCG is only 2.5 more time as sensitive to the blue then the green, but I guess you need to define blue and green. My green is 514 and my blue is 457. At 405 I would have to say you will see the emulsion much faster then what they state at your blue and I would not be surprised if the emulsion needs the same exposure time to your blue at 10mW as it does for you green at 75mW. 74mW should be quite fine for small holograms. How big are your plates?
Those specs do not say anything about polarization, but I looked at the spec sheet on their site and it stated 50:1, which will be ok, not great but ok. I remember that company as I almost bought some of their lasers but they could not give me more specifics on the specifications I needed. I asked them for a sample to test and if it proved ok for holography then I would post my finding on this site and I am sure others would buy. But they turned me down. Anyway, since you have one, the two other most important things, which the specs dont' mention is coherence length and stability. The green pens should be more stable then the blue one, so start off with that one first. And as far as coherence length being unknow, well, we will just have to monitor you closely and you need to be very specific in what you are doing so that we can elliminate any possible and potential exposing and processing errors if you don't get a hologram so we can blame it on the laser.
With all that being said, it will be a fun experience, and hopfully after you plant your fruit tree it will bear fruit. But like a fruit tree, it may take a few seasons (tries).
DCG, as we all on this forum have proven, do not NEED fixer, but it is by far the easiest and most controlled way of finalizing the crosslinking and hardening the gelatin. So yes, if you can get it, use it, you will be using a time proven method.
For sure if we are not sure about your laser start with a SBR laying flat on some coins of different metals (colors). Or even better yet if you just want to test your laser, lay the plate directly on over a mirror with 3 dimes(coins) separating them them for a tripod mount. Lay the mirror down, mirror side up, lay the three dimes on the mirror such that it will hold two adjacent corners of the plate and the far side (tripod), then lay the plate emulsion side down on the dimes. That should yield a bright (diffraction grating) hologram. Bring the beam in at an angle, 56 degrees would be best, but anything your eyeball can see close to 45 degrees will be fine. We can refine this later. Also, do not tape or cover the leading leading edge of the plate and make sure a part of the beam hits the edge of the plate. That way if we see color in the internal reflections, at least we know your laser has some potential of producing a hologram.
Thanks for the link. I may have to buy some and play with them. I don't remember anyone on this forum posting about "old" Slavich DCG plates.
Those specs do not say anything about polarization, but I looked at the spec sheet on their site and it stated 50:1, which will be ok, not great but ok. I remember that company as I almost bought some of their lasers but they could not give me more specifics on the specifications I needed. I asked them for a sample to test and if it proved ok for holography then I would post my finding on this site and I am sure others would buy. But they turned me down. Anyway, since you have one, the two other most important things, which the specs dont' mention is coherence length and stability. The green pens should be more stable then the blue one, so start off with that one first. And as far as coherence length being unknow, well, we will just have to monitor you closely and you need to be very specific in what you are doing so that we can elliminate any possible and potential exposing and processing errors if you don't get a hologram so we can blame it on the laser.
With all that being said, it will be a fun experience, and hopfully after you plant your fruit tree it will bear fruit. But like a fruit tree, it may take a few seasons (tries).
DCG, as we all on this forum have proven, do not NEED fixer, but it is by far the easiest and most controlled way of finalizing the crosslinking and hardening the gelatin. So yes, if you can get it, use it, you will be using a time proven method.
For sure if we are not sure about your laser start with a SBR laying flat on some coins of different metals (colors). Or even better yet if you just want to test your laser, lay the plate directly on over a mirror with 3 dimes(coins) separating them them for a tripod mount. Lay the mirror down, mirror side up, lay the three dimes on the mirror such that it will hold two adjacent corners of the plate and the far side (tripod), then lay the plate emulsion side down on the dimes. That should yield a bright (diffraction grating) hologram. Bring the beam in at an angle, 56 degrees would be best, but anything your eyeball can see close to 45 degrees will be fine. We can refine this later. Also, do not tape or cover the leading leading edge of the plate and make sure a part of the beam hits the edge of the plate. That way if we see color in the internal reflections, at least we know your laser has some potential of producing a hologram.
Thanks for the link. I may have to buy some and play with them. I don't remember anyone on this forum posting about "old" Slavich DCG plates.
-
onyx86
Holography Noob....Questions
The plates are 2.5 x 2.5".
Will I need to bother with removing the lens from the laser diode? I don't mind doing this so much for the 5mW greenie 532nm, or the 10mW violet/blue 405nm, but I don't think I want to modify the 75mW Pheonix as it cost a bit more than the others. If I wanted to use the 75 mW unmodified, would I need a spatial filter?
I'm excited to try again when I get home from work today. I asked the wicked lasers forum about the coherence length and stability of the executive series, hopefully I can get an answer.
Will I need to bother with removing the lens from the laser diode? I don't mind doing this so much for the 5mW greenie 532nm, or the 10mW violet/blue 405nm, but I don't think I want to modify the 75mW Pheonix as it cost a bit more than the others. If I wanted to use the 75 mW unmodified, would I need a spatial filter?
I'm excited to try again when I get home from work today. I asked the wicked lasers forum about the coherence length and stability of the executive series, hopefully I can get an answer.
-
JohnFP
Holography Noob....Questions
No you do not have to remove the lens, if you DO NOT remove the lens the light will already be diverging, so no spatial filter will be needed and the beam should be very clean. It may be oval, but again, that should not be a problem with what you are doing.
-
a_k
Holography Noob....Questions
PFG04 plates might absorb too much light at 405nm for single beam reflection.
-
JohnFP
Holography Noob....Questions
What do you mean a_k? You think they are that loaded with DCG?